The Bosch and Valeo Starter motors
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boschvaleostarter.htm
article 16-A
Problems with starting can often be traced to a starter in need of replacement or overhaul or lubrication of the Bendix drive, a bad starter solenoid, and occasionally a problem in the starter relay circuitry. Some stock relays have a diode inside. Unconfirmed information is that some have substituted a 0-332-014-118 relay, perhaps a DF005 'Blazer' relay from AutoZone stores. The Bosch starter relay uses two #87 terminals, and may sub to Bosch 03 32 019 150 for 1977+ bikes. That is a common Bosch accessory use relay. Connector, if you need one, is 0 334 485 007, while the spring loaded terminals are 1 901 355 917.
****NOTE!! : If installing a Valeo starter into a 1984-1988 model, these use a starter relay that contains a diode, and the original relay was 61-31-1-244-019. You must change that relay to 61-36-1-391-197, to handle the increased Valeo SOLENOID current. This is NOT needed for the 1977-1984 models that do not have that diode containing relay.
SEE later herein on those rare instances when someone substitutes a Valeo for a Bosch (and not VV).
Earlier airheads were built with Bosch starters as standard. The Bosch starter has a bent metal plate at the forward end, that supports the starter to the timing chest wall. When installing a Bosch in place of a Valeo, use that plate.
There are at least THREE types of Bosch starters used on the airheads:
Bosch starters up through 1974 were 8 tooth 0.001.157.007, rated 0.5 hp and 290 A. The /6 bikes for 1975 and 1976 used an 8 tooth 0.001.157.015 rated 0.6 hp and 320 A. The 8 tooth starters are used ONLY with the 93 tooth flywheels. For 1977 and later, the starter has to be 9 tooth, for use with the 111 tooth flywheels (or carrier). The starter is 0.001.157.023, rated 0.7 hp and 320 A. Solenoids, unconfirmed, seem to be the same as EARLY air cooled VW.
NOTE: The "Airheads Beemer Club" has an account with Ace Houston Warehouse, a wholesaler/importer/remanufacturer, ETC. The Club account is #700. Call Bob Spencer at 1-800-392-3332 or e-mail to acehoutx@flash.net. Mention account 700. The Valeo starters are available. The part was D6RA15, Valeo changed it to 432586. The last price for these from Ace was $172.50 plus shipping. This is a brand NEW starter. 5 or more are cheaper. There is no core charge, but they will probably pay shipping to get your old one. They have rebuilt Bosch starters, last price was $200 and a $100 core charge and shipping (core charge refunded). Bob Spencer thought that the Bosch starters MIGHT be put back into production at some point. The information in THIS paragraph was provided by Ken Kirk kirkkw@yahoo.com.
For another competent source, but with parts, rebuilding, etc>>.....please see below, for euromotoelectrics
Be sure to use the Bosch with the proper number of teeth. When installing a starter, replacing one you rebuilt, whatever, be
especially careful that the starter is properly and squarely mounted, you want to avoid
breaking or otherwise cracking the nose (that casting that is the rear part) during
operation.
The AIRHEAD Bosch starter uses ELECTROmagnets, not permanent magnets, for the field coils.
The Bosch is very old-fashioned technology, and very reliable, but slightly less powerful
than the permanent magnet type like the Valeo. NOTE however that a nice property of the field coil type is that as it 'sees' a heavier and heavier load,
it draws more and more current, producing more and more power.
One other thought: theoretically, the Valeo permanent magnet type MIGHT
loose some magnetism over TIME and USAGE.
We all know about the magnet failures on the Valeo's. Frankly, epoxy-gluing magnets may have its place, but there are lots of failures, especially in airheads where the starter is subject to engine heat by direct contact. I do NOT like the ideas of epoxies being subjected to constant wide temperature changes, their expansion-contraction rate, AFAIK, is vastly different than the surrounding metals. The starter in an airhead does, remember, sit right on top of the engine, INside a cover! The constant heating and cooling cycling can crack or otherwise ruin the bond of the magnet glue. Valeo addressed this problem (in 2001) by changing the type of glue and reshaping the side of the magnet that fits against the starter shell.....and late manufacture Valeo starters are adequate and seem fairly reliable. There is an aftermarket type of Valeo housing available with a modification to help keep the magnets from moving, spring-type separating pieces. Valeo permanent magnet starters....as well as permanent magnet starters from many other manufacturer's, even Bosch, work fine in CARS. As an old Luddite type, I personally prefer the Bosch electromagnet type for our airheads. However, I am open-minded on the latest Valeo starters....although I really, as an engineer, do not like the plastic gears, etc., I saw inside the old Valeo's.
NOTE: For Starter rebuilding, parts, etc., see
www.euromotoelectrics.com, John
Rayski
This is for both Bosch and Valeo. John knows the in's and out's of
all of them, and has a stock of all the pertinent parts.
note: The Bosch is a common starter for repair shops, easily worked
on.
The difference in power output of the various Bosch starters and the Valeo is, IN MY
OPINION, not overly important for an airhead.
I first saw a Valeo apart at a TechDay in the Bay Area, years ago, at which Airmarshal Bob Shilling was changing one to a Bosch in his own bike. I had been QUITE curious
about the Valeo prior to this, but since I didn't normally work on the later airheads, I
had never taken one apart. Frankly, I was VERY MUCH disturbed (...or mentally disturbed,
take your pick, or both). The Valeo, from an engineer's viewpoint, in MY
opinion, was, at least then, a total piece of junk, crap, terrible design. It is NOT the glued
magnet structure that got to me, although I did not like that for hot motors for
the reason stated above. It was the PLASTIC gears planetary mechanism, which
allowed the
Valeo to spin up to high rpm, and drive the engine at a much lower rpm, multiplying
torque. I thought that the Valeo was a poor design, flimsy, destined for trash.
These 'problems' have, to be honest, not been overwhelmingly seen.
I am not going to get farther into the Valeo rebuilding, nor the 'deals' arranged by this Club's
Members for brand new discounted Valeo's, and for Bosch starters, etc. It is for each Member to decide the best way to go. It
may be best to lubricate the noisy Valeo and inspect its innards. Maybe to purchase a new
one. Maybe talk to Euromotoelectrics. Maybe get a Bosch. Whatever. BUT, you have my opinion on the Valeo....I consider the
OLD Valeo not acceptable, and when it
fails, I used to advise folks to get a Bosch. I will admit that a LOT of Valeo's are out there, and
lots are NOT failing. I also want you all to understand that I have a NASTY mind-set
against the Valeo. I HATE what I consider bad engineering, and THAT may cloud my
judgment. If you decide to fix a Valeo, don't even think about using
common epoxy products and doing that repair yourself. Instead of
using a Saturn housing, I recommend you get a LATE version from Euromotoelectric.
Or get them to fix you up otherwise.
If you decide to change your failed Valeo to a
Bosch: Brand New Bosch's are pricey. Try to find a good used one, rebuild it. Generally you need only a set of brushes and bushings (bearings).
Once in awhile some Bendix work. The solenoids
can often be rebuilt too.
Keep the 'Bendix' drive lubricated. I like to use a silicone grease
due to its general non-hardening and wide temperature range. But, I have some mixed
feelings about the use of silicone's at fast moving parts, and maybe a moly containing
high temperature more common grease is better...I am NOT sure about it. yet. Starter
rebuilders may have ideas.
NOTE!! Someone who has a stock 9 tooth Bosch starter, and installs a Valeo starter, needs to know this: There is ONE special problem, not commonly known, and there is even a BMW SI (Service Information, in other words, a Bulletin) on it, and the bulletin is 12-013-9 (2389). If the original starter relay is the 61-31-1-244-019, it contains a diode, and has other properties that do not match the Valeo, the relay could have sticking together contacts....and the starter continue to run!....and the proper relay is 61-36-1-391-397, which has a higher current carrying capacity, stronger spring. This can happen with the Bosch starter, although rarely. In fact, if you have to replace the -019 relay, BMW will supply the -397 relay.
Revisions:
02/06/2004: add link to /5 article; minor other clarifications
05/30/2004: add NOTE on the starter relay changes
10/27/2005: updated in numerous places
04/22-2006: add red note on Valeo
installation needing special relay
11/28/2006: correct spelling in this URL: www.euromotoelectrics.com
11/29/2006: Change to 16-A, and do minor editing (16-B is being
written)
04/28/2007: Fix actual hyperlink for euromotoelectrics, display had been
OK, link NOT.